Restricted Items

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Restricted Items

Post by Frew on Mon May 20, 2013 1:45 am

Hey everyone,

So, the system we were using to restrict certain items failed when we switched over to our new version of permissions software. We weren't aware of this until we discovered that people were making linking books! So, here's a list of what we're getting rid of and why:

Nuke: This should be obvious. They're a little too destructive for the time being, with no decent counter.

Personal Safe: This safe is a little... Too safe. It can't be broken. It can't even be opened by anyone but the person who placed it. It's a little too good of a defense.

All Anchors and Chunk Loaders: We have so many worlds in play, and we've got several players. We'd like to avoid stretching our resources further than absolutely necessary. As such, we've gotten rid of anything that attempts to load chunks without a player present.

All Mystcraft Objects: We can't have people generating their own worlds. It's unbalanced and a massive strain on the server. The lag will be noticeable with even a few extra worlds. This includes the production of linking books, as they aren't really playbalanced with our system. If you'd like a quick teleportation system, you can buy books from the server.

Emperor's Chalice: Infinite water was deemed a little problematic given that players can 'use' buckets of liquid inside protected space. Also, water physics can cause the server to cry.

All Portal Guns (Save the Bacon gun and regular one!): All portal guns are stored as one instance in the server. So people would be sharing the same six portals. But, if you use the bacon portal gun, you can have your own personal portal gun!

The Long Fall Boots: I know, they're very fun and useful. But, they negate all fall damage and don't break. That doesn't seem very balanced, does it?

Portal Cube Vents: Potentially taxing on the server. If there is a good argument for their reinstatement, please bring it up.

Portal Radio: It's another entity to keep track of, if you'd like a loop, you can make one yourself with the disk, which is still included.

Select Destructive Turtles: Specifically, Mining, Digging, Felling, Laser. These things can bypass protection and cannot be blocked with anything save a force field. Given that a FF is an endgame tech, certain turtles have to go. You can make turtles too easily, and force fields large enough to be effective take a hell of a lot more time.

Thanks a lot for your patience!

Frew

Frew
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 27
Join date : 2013-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by OmegaStarAlpha on Wed May 22, 2013 12:50 pm

I looks like turrets are banned aswell and not mentioned. They were already destroyed on breaking so no reuse, which I thought was a fair balance.

Also the mining laser needs to be banned it bypasses protection just like a turtle. Aswell as the tunnel bore and arcane bore.

I disagree with the personal safes. They cant be automated only used as safe storage, and there is nothing op about the only option to not getting your valuables stolen when the server protection is lacking. They can be broken and opened by op admins and placer. The advanced safe is the one that cant be broken or opened by anyone but the placer and thus should be banned.

OmegaStarAlpha

Posts : 13
Join date : 2013-05-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by vali1 on Wed May 22, 2013 2:12 pm

You mentioned nerfing warded blocks, so that anyone with a wand can remove any warded block. Do they still have the highest blast resistance in game?

vali1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1

Posts : 10
Join date : 2013-05-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by Retahnais on Wed May 22, 2013 6:45 pm

This, unfortunately, isn't a complete list. We've added several things to it so far and possibly adding more. Frew just hasn't updated his post.
This is a list of added things that are banned (to my knowledge).
However they might still be craftable/placeable because we're still having issues with the mod. So if you read this list of items and they are craftable/placeable please let us know and please refrain from using them if they are.

  • Landmarks - To restrict the size of quarries so they can't be created over a majority of someones protected area.
  • ALL turtles - This hopefully is only a temporary thing until we can figure out how to ban only the mining/felling/digging/laser turtles specifically.
  • Arcane Bore - Can bypass protection.
  • Wand of Equal Trade - (I can't remember the reason for this one) This unfortunately removes the hoe of growth from being crafted. We are trying to figure out how to put it back in the game. Open to suggestions.
  • Wand of Cooling (Not the thaum one) - Don't like the idea of excessively turning 8 water source blocks into ice. Wand of Frost is okay because it only freezes 1 source block.
  • One-Way Glass - Can crash the server and corrupt the world.
  • Advanced Safe/MFFS Security Storage - Same reason as personal safe.

Warded blocks have as much blast resistance as bricks.

If all your items are safe in an indestructible chest, what's the point of trying to breaking in? That's what your area protection is for. It's up to you to reinforce it and make it impenetrable. It's irrelevant if an op/admin can open it. OP's/Admin's are not meant to play the game, only fix problems in the game.

We will discuss mining lasers and the tunnel bore.

Also there is a poll to discuss what happens with Adventure bags, if you haven't voted and would like to click here.


I like turtles.


Last edited by Retahnais on Fri May 24, 2013 2:53 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________

Retahnais
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 37
Join date : 2013-04-05
Location : Raxacoricofallapatorius

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by OmegaStarAlpha on Wed May 22, 2013 9:03 pm

vali1 wrote:You mentioned nerfing warded blocks, so that anyone with a wand can remove any warded block. Do they still have the highest blast resistance in game?

Unerfed warded blocks have ultimate blast protection, can withstand nukes. In nerfed form I havent truely tested, I do know that pick doesnt do anything.

Retahnais wrote:[color=#1b5159]
If all your items are safe in an indestructible chest, what's the point of trying to breaking in? That's what your area protection is for. It's up to you to reinforce it and make it impenetrable. It's irrelevant if an op/admin can open it. OP's/Admin's are not meant to play the game, only fix problems in the game.
I like turtles.

The point is the protection dosent protect anything. All it does is restrict placing and breaking blocks in an area. But there are mention above many items that allow you to bypass the protection. So it makes the protection only a minor thing to defeat and then have full access to your storage. Then you suggest reinforcing this protection yourself. Ok, how? Turrents and traps, oh cant do that they are banned. Warded blocks, nope they are nerfed anyone can break. MFFS, ok but not an option to all for quite awhile. Oh the only real option hide, wow sounds fun.

On a perfect server we would not have to worry about theft/grief and protection(this is not a crack at this server). But it is not that nor are many that exhist. I think its just sad that so many cool things have to be banned because of a few trolls.

OmegaStarAlpha

Posts : 13
Join date : 2013-05-05

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by zombamafoo on Wed May 22, 2013 9:25 pm

OmegaStarAlpha wrote:I think its just sad that so many cool things have to be banned because of a few trolls.

I agree greatly.

:EDIT:
The Wand of Frost was specifically mentioned as not banned in this thread, but mine isn't working. Bug?

zombamafoo

Posts : 10
Join date : 2013-05-22
Location : Rl'yeh, Pacific Ocean, Earth

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by Frew on Wed May 22, 2013 11:35 pm

Due to poor documentation on the part of the developers, it's been really tough to actually figure out what has been restricted and what has not. Honestly, it's not a great system. Sadly, it is the only tool we have.

I'm planning on entirely rewriting our restriction structure now that I have the time to do so.

Let me attempt to explain the issue here, as I understand it after a long discussion with the boobs who wrote it.

Apparently, there are several systems that the different mods use to build their items. Many of them are simple crafting, done through the regular minecraft system. However, some mods, like Thaum, use their own system. Turtles appear to use this system.

When I learned that many items were still in circulation, and craftable, I began to seek alternatives. The only other option that Forge Essentials allows is disabling the 'use' of items. Basically, if an item has a right click, it circumvents your attempt to use it. It's not... Exactly the system I want. But it's another tool in the belt.

My plan now is to scrap our current permissions regarding restriction and find the flaws that are causing us problems.

That said, the first time we did this, it was just the three of us trying to feel out what might be fair, and what will work with our protection.

However, now that we have such an active userbase, I am more than willing to include you all in the discussion.

Though, to do that, those who wish to be involved must understand our goal here: Game Balance. The game must be balanced. There's no space in our system for something 'perfect', as it would cause issues somewhere.

We'd like to see conflict within the server, with some general PvP and politics. If everyone has a fort shelled in with unnerfed warding blocks. Everyone will be perfectly safe. That's not a balanced situation. Things need to have counters.

Also, we do not want to give people the tools to cause issues to the server itself. Things like mystcraft cause serious lag. So, it's not possible for everyone to have access. Though, rather than just cutting it, we've attempted to integrate it into the gameplay. And I think that we've reached a good place with that.

Originally, we believed that players would appreciate the restrictions of items that mean the imminent harm. However, it seems that isn't exactly the case. If it's what everyone wants, we could be more lenient with restriction. However, we will have to declare everything fair play. I don't think the average user would really want that.

We want to serve those who are established, but we also want to maintain accessible for new players. Turtles, for example, can eat through protection. They can be blocked entirely by force fields, but until you get that endgame piece of tech, you're at the mercy of some idiot with an hour and a mission. Do you want that?

Mining lasers are actually a great example of balance. They cause serious, massive damage, but can be entirely blocked by glass and obsidian. They have a pro, and a con. It's a good system. However, the thaum wand that can freeze a 9x9 area of water for free? That's not exactly balanced. There's no downside.

Unfortunately, Thaum's developer has a very different view of game balance than we do, believing that the time dedicated to research justifies giving players cheap access to extremely powerful items. Warding blocks are a great example. They can be reached in about four hours, but are completely indestructible, and dirt cheap to make. Does this sound fair?

This post is becoming extremely lengthy.

TLDR; Restrictions are kind of haphazard right now, we're working on it. If you want to discuss things that should be in, or out, we're willing to listen. The list will be published soon. We're willing to update it and add/remove items as is seen fit. If you work with us, you can be heard, and everyone can be happy!

Frew

Frew
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 27
Join date : 2013-04-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by zombamafoo on Thu May 23, 2013 12:22 am

The wand from Thaumcraft only freezes one source block of water - the Wand of Cooling is a Factorization thing. Can the Wand of Frost be un-disabled?

Can Quarries destroy protected blocks? If so, why are they not banned when the Arcane Bore and Turtles are?
I just wish there was a way to make the Bore and Turtles not bypass protection so they could be enabled.

zombamafoo

Posts : 10
Join date : 2013-05-22
Location : Rl'yeh, Pacific Ocean, Earth

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by vali1 on Thu May 23, 2013 3:14 am

In the real world, if you get robbed its not a big deal because you have insurance, and your resources are all in the bank. But in minecraft, either your base is invulnerable, and pvp is just a way older players bully weaker ones, or the base can be broken, meaning there is a chance you will lose everything. Neither one is fun (in my opinion).

Maybe just telling players to have a backup resource stash in case they lose everything is enough?

Also, if you are going to ban safes, you need to ban MFFS Security Storage. No point having one without the other.

vali1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1

Posts : 10
Join date : 2013-05-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by Retahnais on Fri May 24, 2013 2:50 am

Forgot about the MFFS Security Storage. Those have been added to the list. As well as Advanced chests.
If you have any in use we would like to ask that you pick them up please and use another storage method.
One-way-glass blocks have been added as well because they can crash the server and corrupt the world.


One of these days Alice...one of these days, bam, zoom, straight to the moon.

_________________

Retahnais
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 37
Join date : 2013-04-05
Location : Raxacoricofallapatorius

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by vali1 on Fri May 24, 2013 7:39 pm

If you really want to make all your items theft proof, just stick everything you own on applied energistics disks and log out holding them. Preventing your items from being stolen is far, far easier than preventing your base from being vandalized.

vali1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1
Vagabond--Grouch Level: 1

Posts : 10
Join date : 2013-05-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: Restricted Items

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum